Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities)

Gary Williams (Florida Rural Water Association)

Bill Lowe (Florida Public Service Commission)

Patti Daniel (Florida Public Service Commission)

Tom Walden (Florida Public Service Commission)

Michael Wetherington (Florida Public Service Commission)

John Williams (Florida Public Service Commission)

Katrina Tew (Florida Public Service Commission)

Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) welcomed everyone and opened discussion of the work group's goals, timeline, and scope. Patti Daniel (FPSC) distributed handouts from the first Interagency Project meeting on August 24, 2000 which were used to guide discussion of the following:

Goals - Explore possible water treatment options to remove hydrogen sulfide to prevent the "black water" problem on a going forward basis.

Timeline - The next Interagency Project meeting is scheduled for Friday, September 29, 2000. The group will be expected to make an oral presentation on its progress at that meeting. Beyond that, the FPSC has proposed a timeline which aims to have an end product by December 2000. Participants agreed that this is a very short timeframe and discussed that the FPSC had proposed this schedule in order to allow time for possible legislation if that is the final recommendation of the Interagency Project group.

Scope - Copper corrosion is a much broader issue than hydrogen sulfide and manifests itself in more forms (i.e., other colors) than that experienced in the black water complaints.

Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) stated that whether true or not, the larger Interagency Project group seemed to agree that hydrogen sulfide is causing the black water problem. This led to a brief discussion of the three prior studies on hydrogen sulfide and copper corrosion problems:

University of Florida study - Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) reported that many think this study was badly flawed. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) stated that he'd asked that his name be removed from the final report.

Pasco County study - This study was done by the FDEP to see if there was something a homeowner with the black water problem could do to resolve the problem at minimal expense. The data was inconclusive. (Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) stated that if his residence had this problem, he would turn the water heater temperature to 150 degrees. There are liability concerns, however, with issuing such a recommendation to homeowners.)

Sarah Jacobs study - Some people do not agree with some of the conclusions. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) noted the that the study used western waters, that the study was not done in "the real world," and that the study incorrectly concluded that once corrosion from hydrogen sulfide starts, it cannot be stopped.

Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) stated that sulfur can be dealt with, but it may need to be treated differently for different utilities. Gary Williams (FL Rural Water Association) noted that with respect to the Lead and Copper Rule, utility-specific factors are plugged in to arrive at a standard for that utility's system. Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) explained how some water utilities (like Pinellas County Utilities) have a centralized system with distribution and how others (like Aloha Utilities and the City of Tallahassee) have several wells across their service territory. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) added that in different wells, utilities may experience significant differences in the sulfides.

Causes of corrosion include dissolved oxygen (DO), chlorination, and hydrogen sulfide. Other factors are roughness factors of the interior of the pipe; type and amount of solder and solder flux.

Iron, copper, and sulfur can produce colored water. Sulfur produces black water under the right conditions. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) noted that corrosion can be diminished by using an inhibitor, changing the amount of DO, or adjusting the pH balance. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) said black water is more prevalent in homes with water softeners, primarily due to removal of chlorine, and a change in the pH and alkalinity of the water, causing the inhibitor not to work as well. Things that may help reduce corrosion include adjusting pH and alkalinity, degasification of carbon dioxide and sulfides, removal of total organic carbon (TOC) and the use of a weaker oxidant for disinfection such as chloramines.

Tom Walden (FPSC) shared with the group some well test data from FDEP gathered by Patricia Brady (FPSC) and plotted on a state map. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) inquired as to the depth of the wells. Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) noted that these were groundwater monitoring wells, not drinking water wells, and that they were put in to look at many factors, including alkalinity and sulfides. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) said that the data seemed to agree with his experience, noting that surficial wells were not significant and should not be included on the map. He added that if you are talking about regulations to address hydrogen sulfide, you should address total sulfur, most of which is in the form of hydrogen sulfide. Otherwise, many utilities would just chlorinate, and you would still have the problem. Also, utilities can use existing tests to come up with total sulfur measurements without much additional difficulty. Presently, there is no FDEP standard on sulfur.

John Williams (FPSC) asked why utilities did not simply drill new wells when they discovered problems with existing ones. Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) responded that sometimes utilities do take that action. Gary Williams (FL Rural Water Association) interjected that there are some places with high sulfates with no reported black water problem.

Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) said that field analysis is best for testing for sulfides, rather than transporting water samples to the lab. TOC is important too, for its microbial effect.

A common treatment method used in the Central and South DEP districts is aeration. The achieved effect depends on pH, with low pH (6.5 or so) achieving very good sulfur removal, in the range of 50-75%. Pinellas County uses tray aeration and attains 30-40% removal. This method has been used in Pinellas since 1956, and DO is added to control hydrogen sulfide. There have been some problems with green water, but inhibitor and pH adjustment solved the problem.

Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) stated that he wanted to avoid the complexities similar to the Lead & Copper Rule, noting that less than 10% of utilities exceed standards. He added that sulfate is a secondary standard at 250 mg/l, and is now required to be tested for every three years. He questioned what we would tell utilities to do with the information after asking them to monitor for it. Another approach is the public notice approach – to educate the utilities as much as possible. FDEP could possibly withhold additional permits for utility system expansion unless they address the black water problem. Of course, many smaller water utilities (i.e., mobile home parks) are not interested in expansion.

Patti Daniel (FPSC) inquired about the possibility of using water quality reports to get the word out. Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) discussed the use of these Consumer Confidence Reports (CCR) as an option. The federal government sets the requirements for what must be reported in the CCRs which are revised annually. Another option is setting a new standard allowing a certain maximum level of hydrogen sulfide or sulfur. Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) added that FDEP did not really want to set a new standard since there did not appear to be sound science to back up such a proposal, which would have to go before the Governor and Cabinet.

Van Hoofnagle (FDEP) reviewed some important things for the work group to consider, with the hope that decisions could be reached on them at the next work group meeting:

• Solution to address sulfur, sulfides, or sulfates?
• List of regulatory approaches to problem?
• Technical guidance documents for regulators and utilities?
• Incremental approach - Take some immediate action and look at again in one year?
• Use of CCRs?

The group discussed whether other stakeholders should be included in the work group. Ed Bettinger with the Florida Department of Health should be included in the group although he did not make the first meeting. Also, Gary Williams (FL Rural Water Association) suggested that if we were looking to include the AWWA, Bob Powell (Pinellas County Utilities) might be able to represent them in addition to Pinellas County Utilities, as he is a member of AWWA. The group thought that Ken Weber of the Southwest Florida Water Management District might also be invited.

The group decided to call itself the "Sulfide Source Water Issues" Work Group and to hold the next meeting on Friday, September 15, 2000 @ 8:30 AM in the FPSC Gunter Building, Room 207.